Curb my enthusiasm? - Guild Wars Forums

Nubby · Feb 24, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Hey guys, haven't beta tested the game yet, but from what I hear and see it's going to be an awesome game. The pvp aspect is great since I'm playing a free uo shard, rebirth, atm, but this game could replace my old pvp love. Anyway, my biggest concern was the no monthly fee; this sounds great at first, but will they let the game go down the ttoilet like diablo or other free montly games in the past? I'm all for not paying, but you do get what you pay for, and I would hate to spend time on a char only to have the game turn to crap. Just my two cents..Am I being cyincal? ANy opinions..thx

mattrad · Feb 24, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

From what I have heard, this will be better than Diablo and other non-fee based games. The cost comes in when you want to get the updates. At that point, if you want the cool patches or weapons, then you will have to pay, but you do not have to get the updates. To me, this allows people to get on and play without have to shell out $30-50 for patches or updates every so many months. That is what burned me out with EQ and DAoC. Both were good games, but being the main income bringer, my money was mainly tied up in the house. At times I could not afford patches AND car payments, and school bills. (AHHhhhh to be a child again......)

I look forward to the launch date and will get the first copy that I can. Hopefully see you in the game.

Ashton Hayes (8th level Ranger/Necromancer)

Dreamsmith · Feb 24, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Nubby, do you really think they'd have let Diablo II slide into the state it's in if they were planning on releasing a new expansion they wanted to actually sell in a few months? Guild Wars differs significantly from Diablo II in that it's never going to be more than some months away from the next expansion they want people to actually want to buy. There's nothing in it for Blizzard to try to fix Diablo II, but ArenaNet's lifeblood will depend on them keeping Guild Wars in shape.

This also means that, not only is this game not free, it'll be substantially more expensive in the long run than Diablo II was. It's not going to be much cheaper than most MMORPGs. You may not be paying $10/month, but you will be paying $50 every 6-9 months. Do not be confused into thinking this game is free, it'll probably be the most expensive game you've ever played that didn't have a monthly fee, just somewhat cheaper than those that do.

Loviatar · Feb 24, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

all patches are free and streamed in while you play

some new content (as they choose) will be added as well

consider each new *chapter* as they call it equivalent to a new game purchase

you will simply have to choose between doomxxx and the latest chapter of guildwars as to which you want more

advantage of new chapter is that by the time you can afford doomxxx it will be in the bargain bin

Viktor · Feb 24, 2005, 09:15 PM // 21:15

the big difference is... Diablo 2 was also a singleplayer game, even if blizzard made a couple of 100.000 customers upset at various times, the majority didn't care.

Guild Wars is multiplayer only. If the screw it up, they screw it up big time.

Bgnome · Feb 24, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/guildwars1.php

GB: Your website states that there will be no monthly charge to North American players. How do you plan on continually updating the game with new content without having a steady stream of income?

ArenaNet: We founded this company to create online role playing games, and we???ve designed Guild Wars around network technology that is very efficient in terms of bandwidth and hardware utilization. In addition to lower operating cost, we believe that we can sell a lot more copies of Guild Wars by not charging a monthly fee. We believe that not charging monthly fees allows larger communities of gamers to enjoy the online role playing game experience. The money earned from game sales will be turned right back to support the game and to develop the expansions. And because we will keep developing expansion packs for Guild Wars, we are highly motivated to keep our customers happy and keep them coming back for more. If they like what they???ve experienced, they will want to buy an expansion pack when it comes along.

Eight or ten years ago, no one believed that you could offer a gaming network for free, but Battle.net proved that you could offer a free gaming network and remain financially successful. Our new goal is to prove that you can offer an excellent online game with full support without a monthly subscription fee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guild-wars/561040p2.html

GameSpy: Early in the Guild Wars development process you made the decision that there would be no monthly fees. So far it's still the only big-name MMOG to try this business model. Does this surprise you? Is the MMOG business climate today what you expected it would be when you made that decision a couple years ago?

Strain: The fact that Guild Wars is the only big-name MMOG to ditch the subscription fee does surprise us, yes. Our business model will work, and what we are doing could be done by others. We find it surprising that others have not or are not trying to do the same thing. But, at the time some of our founders developed Battle.net, no one had created a free online gaming network, either, so I guess it's fair to say that we're accustomed to being innovative.

The business climate is exactly what we expected it to be at this time. When we began developing Guild Wars, there were more than 80 announced MMORPG titles under development worldwide. There are far fewer now, and the fact that the numbers have dropped so dramatically proves what we have said all along: that people do not want to pay -- are not willing to pay -- a monthly fee for every game that they play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://articles.filefront.com/Guild_Wars_Interview/;232;;;/article.html

Q: What do you think about the excitement of the game? What do you think has drawn people to this game?

A: I think, first, you know I kind of regret to say this, but I think the no monthly subscription fee is really appealing to a large number of people. These kinds of online games, there???s a lot of people who want to play them and don???t just because of that. So I think that from that standpoint alone people are excited. I think the thing that they may be wary of is thinking, ???Oh??? how are they going to pull this off???? ???Is there going to be advertising in the game???? ???Is it going to be a ???budget??? title, and not feel like a full big production????

With an event like this it???s obvious that that???s not the case. It???s over the top in terms of its production value. People are going to like that.

Q: So how did you manage to pull of the no-subscription fee model? Or is that a company secret?

A: No, it???s not a company secret. It???s kind of surprising to us that it has taken this long for somebody to do it. I think the reason most MMOs charge subscription fees is because they can, you know? The way we do it is, first of all, when you???re running an on-line game like this, other than development expenses your biggest expense is obviously bandwidth to host people on your servers.

So the first thing we did was bring our experience in creating Battle.net to bear on the task of making a game that could host thousands of players but use a very small amount of bandwidth. One of the things that is going on behind the scenes that people don???t realize is this technology that we???ve developed to mask latency so that you???re using a very small amount of bandwidth as you play.
...
The second way we do it is that we support the game over time and ensure that we have a revenue stream that allows us to continue to develop and expand the world by releasing new chapters to the game every six months or so. It will be a new product that tells the next chapter in the guild war story.

In terms of scope and content it will be roughly equivalent to the first game. This is an expansion pack where you???re getting a couple more of this and a little more of that. It???s a full on release, almost a full game. ...

i think that about covers it..

Galatea Orea · Feb 25, 2005, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Yes, it does. I also totally agree that monthly fees are a big turnoff. I love to game, but I've never played any of the MMORPG's on the market for that very reason. I hope Guild Wars is hugely successful and proves them right.

Ciarre · Feb 25, 2005, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

... Guild Wars differs significantly from Diablo II in that it's never going to be more than some months away from the next expansion they want people to actually want to buy. There's nothing in it for Blizzard to try to fix Diablo II, but ArenaNet's lifeblood will depend on them keeping Guild Wars in shape.

This also means that, not only is this game not free, it'll be substantially more expensive in the long run than Diablo II was. It's not going to be much cheaper than most MMORPGs. You may not be paying $10/month, but you will be paying $50 every 6-9 months. Do not be confused into thinking this game is free, it'll probably be the most expensive game you've ever played that didn't have a monthly fee, just somewhat cheaper than those that do.

I always feel it's a good idea to quote the official page - guildwars.com - with questions like this;

Quote:

Am I required to buy the expansion packs to continue to play Guild Wars?

No. Every purchase you make in the continuation of the Guild Wars saga will be your choice. If you purchase expansion packs you will gain access to new regions of the world, new skills and abilities, new items, new professions, and much more. However, if you choose to not purchase a chapter, you will still be able to play the chapters of Guild Wars that you own, and you will have common areas in which you will be able to play with and against your friends who have purchased the other chapter(s).

Will I remain competitive if I do not buy the expansion packs? Will I be able to compete with and against others if I have only some of the Guild Wars chapters?

Yes. Purchasing the newer chapters of Guild Wars will not make you strictly more powerful. You will have access to many more strategic options, due to the expanding nature of the skills, abilities, items and professions that you enjoy with each chapter. It would be similar to building a deck in Magic: The Gathering™: The more cards you own, the more different playing decks that you can choose from to use in the game. When you buy the chapters of Guild Wars, you will acquire a larger collection of skills and abilities from which to build your skill set, but you will not gain more power. So if you purchase a chapter and your friend does not, you will still be able to play competitively against and with one another.

What this means to me is that I can choose to buy one, a few, all, or none of the Expansion Packs and still be able to play.

Let's say I buy the game and the next Expansion Pack after 6 months has something to do exclusively with GvG and I'm not to interested in it - I don't have to buy it. Let's say it continues that way for 2-3 packs - that would be almost two years, then they release one that knocks my socks off when I read the desciption and I snag it for $29.95 at Best Buy or Fry's Electronics or hey, even eBay. $49.95 + 29.95 is $79.90 or $39.95 a year or $3.32 a month.

Or, I could choose to never buy an Expansion Pack for five years. That comes out to about $0.83 a month.

However, even if you bought the game at $49.95 and the Expansion Packs ran $29.95 each and you bought one every 6 months, on the two year model that's $49.95 + $29.95x3=$139.80/24=$5.83 approx. monthly cost. If the Expansion Packs are $39.95 each then it comes to approx. $7.10 monthly and if $49.95 each approx. $8.32 *monthly.

*USD prices.

Creative financing, waiting until the price drops - usually when the next expansion is ready for release; asking for the packs for gifts; asking for gift cards or pre-loaded credit cards if people in your life won't buy games for you; truly evaluating if you need a particular pack or not, allows you more control over how much you personally spend.

Ciarre

Hamselv · Feb 25, 2005, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Dreamsmith:
You seem to forget that the monthly-fee MMORPGSPSRRMM's *also* have lots of expansions that you have to pay for on top of the monthly fees. I think Everquest is up to 10(!) expansions by now!

So following your logic, GW is still by far the cheapest.

Loviatar · Feb 25, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciarre

I
*USD prices.

Creative financing, waiting until the price drops - usually when the next expansion is ready for release; asking for the packs for gifts; asking for gift cards or pre-loaded credit cards if people in your life won't buy games for you; truly evaluating if you need a particular pack or not, allows you more control over how much you personally spend.

Ciarre

sorry to pop your finance bubble but the expansions will be the same price as the original according to the GW website and there will be little if any markdown for a very long time after release to prevent the majority of players saying i will wait

the additional game sized chapters are their revenue stream and they will not cut it to the point they go out of business and are not profitable

Ciarre · Feb 25, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

sorry to pop your finance bubble but the expansions will be the same price as the original according to the GW website and there will be little if any markdown for a very long time after release to prevent the majority of players saying i will wait

the additional game sized chapters are their revenue stream and they will not cut it to the point they go out of business and are not profitable

::::long sigh::::

And you KNOW - not think, not gossip, not rumour - KNOW this because.....?

Ciarre

Bgnome · Feb 25, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

the pricing scheme for expansions has not been finalized at all. i assume loviatar is reading a bit too much into the answer provided at the Official Guild Wars FAQ:

How much will Guild Wars cost? How much will additional chapters cost?

Guild Wars will be competitively priced, comparable to the cost of other titles of its quality. The subsequent chapters of Guild Wars will also be priced at a level comparable to other games.

Loviatar · Feb 25, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

you are correct

Guild Wars will be competitively priced, comparable to the cost of other titles of its quality. The subsequent chapters of Guild Wars will also be priced at a level comparable to other games.

by saying the price of the new chapters was compared to GAMES instead of comparable expansions and the content would be about a full games worth i made my assumption

EDIT

the comparable price of GW to other games is 50 dollars and the new chapters will ALSO be priced at the same level (or should be close)

JUST MY OBSERVATION

Ciarre · Feb 25, 2005, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bgnome

the pricing scheme for expansions has not been finalized at all. i assume loviatar is reading a bit too much into the answer provided at the Official Guild Wars FAQ:

How much will Guild Wars cost? How much will additional chapters cost?

Guild Wars will be competitively priced, comparable to the cost of other titles of its quality. The subsequent chapters of Guild Wars will also be priced at a level comparable to other games.

Not only that, but unless NCSoft insists on selling the Expansion Packs "only" through the GW website there is very little they can do about the merchants setting the price lower after a while to clear inventory.

My entire point about showing how to afford playing had little to do with actuality of pricing, but in making informed decisions as to how to proceed while spending money.

If some hotdog, cowboy gamer MUST have everything the MINUTE it's released, fine. Just take responsibility for the decision and don't gripe and whine about the cash outlay.

Ciarre

Ciarre · Feb 25, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

by saying the price of the new chapters was compared to GAMES instead of comparable expansions and the content would be about a full games worth i made my assumption

I assume you are referring to my post, so can you clarify this bit for me?

I'm afraid I can't see what you are referring to.

Ciarre

Loviatar · Feb 25, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciarre

I assume you are referring to my post, so can you clarify this bit for me?

I'm afraid I can't see what you are referring to.

Ciarre

sorry but i type slowly

refering to bignome post number 12

Aladdar · Feb 25, 2005, 07:38 PM // 19:38

any conjecture at this point on what the price of expansions will be before we even have the original product released is nothing more than that. I could see the expansions going anywhere from 19.99 to 50.00 depending on how much they have in them. Of course, that too is also no more than guesswork.

Ciarre · Feb 25, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aladdar

any conjecture at this point on what the price of expansions will be before we even have the original product released is nothing more than that. I could see the expansions going anywhere from 19.99 to 50.00 depending on how much they have in them. Of course, that too is also no more than guesswork.

This is true, we are all only just guessing at what the price of Expansion Packs will be.

But it's not conjecture that you don't have to buy the packs at all, which would keep the overall gaming experience relatively inexpensive.

Ciarre

Aladdar · Feb 25, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

that is true, and a very good point.

LordFu · Feb 25, 2005, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aladdar

I could see the expansions going anywhere from 19.99 to 50.00 depending on how much they have in them. Of course, that too is also no more than guesswork.

There is no guess work involved in estimating the amount of content each expansions will contain. The official statement, from ArenaNet, is that they will contain the same amount of content as the original product. If that's the case, I'll pay $50 with a smile on my face, every time.

Feb 24, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13	#1
Nubby Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Feb 2005	Curb my enthusiasm? Hey guys, haven't beta tested the game yet, but from what I hear and see it's going to be an awesome game. The pvp aspect is great since I'm playing a free uo shard, rebirth, atm, but this game could replace my old pvp love. Anyway, my biggest concern was the no monthly fee; this sounds great at first, but will they let the game go down the ttoilet like diablo or other free montly games in the past? I'm all for not paying, but you do get what you pay for, and I would hate to spend time on a char only to have the game turn to crap. Just my two cents..Am I being cyincal? ANy opinions..thx Last edited by Sausaletus Rex; Feb 24, 2005 at 11:03 PM // 23:03.. Reason: language

Feb 24, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21	#2
mattrad Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indiana	Enthusiasm? From what I have heard, this will be better than Diablo and other non-fee based games. The cost comes in when you want to get the updates. At that point, if you want the cool patches or weapons, then you will have to pay, but you do not have to get the updates. To me, this allows people to get on and play without have to shell out $30-50 for patches or updates every so many months. That is what burned me out with EQ and DAoC. Both were good games, but being the main income bringer, my money was mainly tied up in the house. At times I could not afford patches AND car payments, and school bills. (AHHhhhh to be a child again......) I look forward to the launch date and will get the first copy that I can. Hopefully see you in the game. Ashton Hayes (8th level Ranger/Necromancer)

Feb 24, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31	#3
Dreamsmith Elite Guru Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Minnesota Guild: Beguine Guild [BGN]	Nubby, do you really think they'd have let Diablo II slide into the state it's in if they were planning on releasing a new expansion they wanted to actually sell in a few months? Guild Wars differs significantly from Diablo II in that it's never going to be more than some months away from the next expansion they want people to actually want to buy. There's nothing in it for Blizzard to try to fix Diablo II, but ArenaNet's lifeblood will depend on them keeping Guild Wars in shape. This also means that, not only is this game not free, it'll be substantially more expensive in the long run than Diablo II was. It's not going to be much cheaper than most MMORPGs. You may not be paying $10/month, but you will be paying $50 every 6-9 months. Do not be confused into thinking this game is free, it'll probably be the most expensive game you've ever played that didn't have a monthly fee, just somewhat cheaper than those that do. __________________ Last edited by Dreamsmith; Feb 24, 2005 at 07:37 PM // 19:37..

Feb 25, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19	#13
Loviatar Underworld Spelunker Join Date: Feb 2005	you are correct Guild Wars will be competitively priced, comparable to the cost of other titles of its quality. The subsequent chapters of Guild Wars will also be priced at a level comparable to other games. by saying the price of the new chapters was compared to GAMES instead of comparable expansions and the content would be about a full games worth i made my assumption EDIT the comparable price of GW to other games is 50 dollars and the new chapters will ALSO be priced at the same level (or should be close) JUST MY OBSERVATION Last edited by Loviatar; Feb 25, 2005 at 07:22 PM // 19:22..

Feb 25, 2005, 07:38 PM // 19:38	#17
Aladdar Elite Guru Join Date: Jan 2005	any conjecture at this point on what the price of expansions will be before we even have the original product released is nothing more than that. I could see the expansions going anywhere from 19.99 to 50.00 depending on how much they have in them. Of course, that too is also no more than guesswork. __________________ Please read THE FAQ and our Forum Guidelines!!!

Feb 24, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15	#4
Loviatar Underworld Spelunker Join Date: Feb 2005	all patches are free and streamed in while you play some new content (as they choose) will be added as well consider each new chapter as they call it equivalent to a new game purchase you will simply have to choose between doomxxx and the latest chapter of guildwars as to which you want more advantage of new chapter is that by the time you can afford doomxxx it will be in the bargain bin

Feb 24, 2005, 09:15 PM // 21:15	#5
Viktor Elite Guru Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sweden	the big difference is... Diablo 2 was also a singleplayer game, even if blizzard made a couple of 100.000 customers upset at various times, the majority didn't care. Guild Wars is multiplayer only. If the screw it up, they screw it up big time.

Feb 25, 2005, 04:02 AM // 04:02	#7
Galatea Orea Academy Page Join Date: Feb 2005 Guild: Knights of Temerity Profession: R/Mo	Yes, it does. I also totally agree that monthly fees are a big turnoff. I love to game, but I've never played any of the MMORPG's on the market for that very reason. I hope Guild Wars is hugely successful and proves them right.

Feb 25, 2005, 12:52 PM // 12:52	#9
Hamselv Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Feb 2005	Dreamsmith: You seem to forget that the monthly-fee MMORPGSPSRRMM's also have lots of expansions that you have to pay for on top of the monthly fees. I think Everquest is up to 10(!) expansions by now! So following your logic, GW is still by far the cheapest.

Feb 25, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11	#12
Bgnome Elite Guru Join Date: Feb 2005	the pricing scheme for expansions has not been finalized at all. i assume loviatar is reading a bit too much into the answer provided at the Official Guild Wars FAQ: How much will Guild Wars cost? How much will additional chapters cost? Guild Wars will be competitively priced, comparable to the cost of other titles of its quality. The subsequent chapters of Guild Wars will also be priced at a level comparable to other games.

Feb 25, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27	#19
Aladdar Elite Guru Join Date: Jan 2005	that is true, and a very good point. __________________ Please read THE FAQ and our Forum Guidelines!!!